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Justin Tymes
Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance
617
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 18:24:00 -
[1] - Quote
The MD was already one of the most situational weapons in the game, due to Shield v Armor actually mattering, vertical advantage and ammo + clip awareness being almost a necessity, while managing your optimal range that Rifles tend to out DPS you in anyway. All of this made it a mediocre choice, shown by how few people actually used the weapon pre-1. 8. But this changes in 1.8, because the MD will be the only weapon in the game(apart from Flaylock) that will be dependent on dropsuit class.
Against a Heavy - useless Against Assaults or Commandos - Extremely Bad match-up Against Logistics - Neutral but may change due to the weapon of opponent Against Scouts - Favorable(what isn't, poor scouts) but may change due to weapon of opponent
Even Laser don't find themselves useless to the point where they need to stop using their weapon against a class. Combined with the elements that made the MD already situational, it makes the MD not viable as a main weapon. If this is the direction the game is going, it makes sense to put the MD together with the rest of the massively situational weapons. It's not like it's out-DPSing sidearms too, on the contrary, it's being left in the dust against any sidearm other than the flaylock when comparing optimals. |
Justin Tymes
Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance
617
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 18:36:00 -
[2] - Quote
Makuta Miserix wrote:sira draco wrote:I agree, it needs a buff, it is useless against all these insanely high DPS rifles
and dont give me that crap like "its a support weapon"
ITS A FREAKING GRENADE LAUNCHER, you should be able to kill masses with it, people should fear it Maybe the correct approach isn't to buff the MD, (as much as I would love that) but to lower the damage of the rifles.
I don't want to bring Rifle DPS in the discussion and turn this into another QQ thread. I want it to be mainly about the MD being bad to useless against dropsuit classes, and whether a weapon should be in the light-slot when it's dependent on class. |
Justin Tymes
Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance
617
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 18:42:00 -
[3] - Quote
TheD1CK wrote:Can we make the HMG a sidearm so I can run shotgun/HMG scouts????
No.... It's not going to happen
So don't hold your breath waiting for MD
Your missing the point. The HMG is effective against all classes in the game, the Mass Driver will not be. |
Justin Tymes
Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance
617
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 18:44:00 -
[4] - Quote
Patrick57 wrote:The MD is not as bad as the Laser Rifle, it's just that the Laser has more range so only a few weapons can counter it very well.
I was just comparing the weapons in 1.8 not now. |
Justin Tymes
Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance
617
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 18:55:00 -
[5] - Quote
Joel II X wrote:That's what the Flaylock is for.
Aside from the fact that people don't use the flaylock much in 1.7, and will DEFINITELY not use the Flaylock at all in 1.8, what will the MD be used for in 1.8 as a Main weapon, and how making it a sidearm buff it to being extremely effective to overpowered at its job? |
Justin Tymes
Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance
617
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 19:47:00 -
[6] - Quote
Reav Hannari wrote:The MD will make a good second weapon for Minmatar Commandos.
It's ok on Min Commandos only because you're not using it as a main weapon(the point of the thread). The problem is that the MD is just going to be an extremely niche Min Commando weapon that will still be outclassed by Dual RIfles in some situation or go home MD users because the MD is not viable as a main. |
Justin Tymes
Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance
621
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 20:05:00 -
[7] - Quote
Reav Hannari wrote:Justin Tymes wrote:Reav Hannari wrote:The MD will make a good second weapon for Minmatar Commandos. It's ok on Min Commandos only because you're not using it as a main weapon(the point of the thread). The problem is that the MD is just going to be an extremely niche Min Commando weapon that will still be outclassed by Dual RIfles in some situation, or go home MD users because the MD is not viable as a main. The MD has always been a niche weapon and there is nothing wrong with some weapons being less popular or only useful in certain situations. People will develop unusual tactics around them and add variety to the game.
Should it be useful to the point where it's effective only against a certain dropsuit class? And should it take up a Main weapon slot? |
Justin Tymes
Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance
621
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 20:25:00 -
[8] - Quote
Master Smurf wrote:Justin Tymes wrote:Reav Hannari wrote:The MD will make a good second weapon for Minmatar Commandos. It's ok on Min Commandos only because you're not using it as a main weapon(the point of the thread). The problem is that the MD is just going to be an extremely niche Min Commando weapon that will still be outclassed by Dual RIfles in some situation, or go home MD users because the MD is not viable as a main. But you can have a MD with an assault SMG as your sidearm, flux grenades and a nanohive. Maybe it needs a buff through a bit more damage or a few more shots in the mag. Still it needs to be used as a niche weapon similar to shotgun and laser so we cant buff it so people will try to Rambo squads. And no - definitely not a sidearm
And what is the MD doing that a Rifle can't? Against Heavies the weapon is a useless. Against Assaults or Commandos, the weapon is a liability, against Logistics it's dependent on whether the Logi is using the most common weapon in the game; if so, it's a bad match-up. The same goes for Scouts, the suit that the MD is supposedly most effective against.
Assaults shouldn't be using a weapon that's bad to useless against multiple classes, that contradicts their purpose. That leaves Min Commando because it can a better weapon with a range above 15 meters.
And why shouldn't the MD not a side-arm? |
Justin Tymes
Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance
621
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 20:38:00 -
[9] - Quote
Chunky Munkey wrote:You'll see its effectiveness in matches of organised squads. Since these scenarios don't occur much outside PC, the weapon can seem rather imbalanced. Don't underestimate it.
This is about 1.8, are you saying in PC people will use weapon that are bad against half of the classes in the game? |
Justin Tymes
Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance
621
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 20:57:00 -
[10] - Quote
Master Smurf wrote:Justin Tymes wrote:Master Smurf wrote:Justin Tymes wrote:Reav Hannari wrote:The MD will make a good second weapon for Minmatar Commandos. It's ok on Min Commandos only because you're not using it as a main weapon(the point of the thread). The problem is that the MD is just going to be an extremely niche Min Commando weapon that will still be outclassed by Dual RIfles in some situation, or go home MD users because the MD is not viable as a main. But you can have a MD with an assault SMG as your sidearm, flux grenades and a nanohive. Maybe it needs a buff through a bit more damage or a few more shots in the mag. Still it needs to be used as a niche weapon similar to shotgun and laser so we cant buff it so people will try to Rambo squads. And no - definitely not a sidearm And what is the MD doing that a Rifle can't? Against Heavies the weapon is a useless. Against Assaults or Commandos, the weapon is a liability, against Logistics it's dependent on whether the Logi is using the most common weapon in the game; if so, it's a bad match-up. The same goes for Scouts, the suit that the MD is supposedly most effective against. Assaults shouldn't be using a weapon that's bad to useless against multiple classes, that contradicts their purpose. That leaves Min Commando because it can a better weapon with a range above 15 meters. And why shouldn't the MD not a side-arm? So you want the shotgun to be a sidearm as well because of its limited range? - Or the laser because up close it cant even tickle? I am not saying not to buff them but they are niche weapons for a reason and that is why they have sidearms to support them. And when you can make one rifle disperse a group, if you throw a flux or not - call me or vid it.
This isn't about optimal conditions, this is about a light weapon's usefulness against classes. Laser and Shotguns are still effective against all classes, the MD will not be in 1.8. |
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Justin Tymes
Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance
621
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 21:14:00 -
[11] - Quote
Master Smurf wrote:Justin Tymes wrote: This isn't about optimal conditions, this is about a light weapon's usefulness against classes. Laser and Shotguns are still effective against all classes, the MD will not be in 1.8.
You know that niche weapons need optimal conditions.
So the MD optimal condition will include no heavies being around and Assaults or Commandos not using Rifles? That's a ****** optimal condition. |
Justin Tymes
Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance
623
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 01:28:00 -
[12] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Justin Tymes wrote:The MD was already one of the most situational weapons in the game, due to Shield v Armor actually mattering, vertical advantage and ammo + clip awareness being almost a necessity, while managing your optimal range that Rifles tend to out DPS you in anyway. All of this made it a mediocre choice, shown by how few people actually used the weapon pre-1. 8. But this changes in 1.8, because the MD will be the only weapon in the game(apart from Flaylock) that will be dependent on dropsuit class.
Against a Heavy - useless Against Assaults or Commandos - Extremely Bad match-up Against Logistics - Neutral but may change due to the weapon of opponent Against Scouts - Favorable(what isn't, poor scouts) but may change due to weapon of opponent
Even Laser don't find themselves useless to the point where they need to stop using their weapon against a class. Combined with the elements that made the MD already situational, it makes the MD not viable as a main weapon. If this is the direction the game is going, it makes sense to put the MD together with the rest of the massively situational weapons. It's not like it's out-DPSing sidearms too, on the contrary, it's being left in the dust against any sidearm other than the flaylock when comparing optimals. Actually. I use the MD as a side arm. Im a Scout and My Main weapons is now the Scrambler Pistol. The MD just made sense
I think people that MAIN SIDEARMS, like SMG and soon to come MAGSECS , Bolt pistols etc.... should consider the MD as a Sidearm with powerful area control.
I suppose that's a way to look at it. I'm a Logi so that means the Amarr is the only suit I can use should I skill into the MD. |
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